[00:00:13] Speaker A: Hello and welcome to the martial arts podcast. I'm Rick Marshall.
In the last episode, I talked to award winning musician buggy Jive. In this episode, I talked to drag performance artist John Macdonald, better known as Noelle Diamond. John has been performing as Noelle for nearly a decade now and is a regular guest and host of drag events around the capital region, including many of the local drag queen story hours, which is where I first encountered Noelle. June is Pride month, and this year has been a busy one for John and Noelle, so I was thrilled to be able to bring John into the studio for a conversation about the artistry of drag performance.
[00:00:59] Speaker B: John, before we get into the artistry that goes into drag performance, I would love to get your thoughts on the relationship between you and your drag Persona. Noelle diamond. It feels like there's a wide range of perspectives on that relationship, whether one's drag Persona is a fun character they play or like an extension of their true self or something else sort of in the spectrum. And I'm curious how you approach performing as Noelle.
[00:01:21] Speaker C: Yeah, I do feel like it's just. It's just me, but in drag, I don't have a specific character that I am trying to play when I'm Noelle. I think that's something that caught me up when I first started doing drag, is I felt like I needed to act different. And I guess I do a little bit, but for the most part, I'm just kind of being me, but with wig on, so, yeah, that works well.
[00:01:43] Speaker B: Becoming Noelle clearly involves more than just getting into her high heeled shoes, which are impressive on their own. I've seen them. They are amazing. I don't understand how you get around on them. You do and do it very well. Let's start with the fashion. It feels like there's gender fluidity in fashion, but then there's also drag, which can take a lot of forms. How do you approach fashion in choosing clothes? Are there some unique elements that come into play when deciding what to wear? Because it's drag.
[00:02:12] Speaker C: So a lot of stuff I wear, I actually make, and it depends on what I'm performing. I think it really just, like, it starts with that is like, if I'm performing a certain mix as a character or there's like a song, then I have sort of a vision of, like, what I should be wearing for that. I tend to do some campier stuff, and so some, like the outfits. Like one of the outfits I recently made last year for story hour, I was dressed like a school bus, and so I made, like, a big yellow dress with, like, lights and things on them as well, with a license plate. So just sort of, like, I don't know, coming up with a concept and then, like, what would that look like as an outfit? And then just sort of creating it.
[00:02:49] Speaker B: Wow. There is sewing, there is dressmaking. There is costume design involved in all of these things. And are you self taught?
[00:02:58] Speaker C: Self taught? So I've been doing drag for nine years, and I started sewing nine years ago. When I started doing drag, I don't. I had some, for some reason, thought in my head that, like, I should be making my own stuff when I started, and it was quite a learning curve to get over, but I'm glad I went through it. Cause now I can make stuff, which is cool.
[00:03:17] Speaker B: That must be very empowering that when you come up with a concept and think, I can make that.
[00:03:22] Speaker C: Yeah. Yeah. I think if I had started out drag, where I was, like, buying outfits from other people, then I might not have pushed myself through the learning curve of, like, okay, let me just sit down with the sewing machine. But I just did it all at once and just powered through it for, like, a year and a half before I finally was like, okay, I think I have a grasp of this now.
[00:03:39] Speaker B: Well, when you started performing in drag, was there anything about the fashion aspect of it that surprised you or sort of, you know, caught you unaware? I guess, because it is a pivot in the way you look at fashion, I think.
[00:03:54] Speaker C: Sure.
I don't know.
It really just comes down to listening to whatever song I was gonna perform and just sort of visualizing, like, what should I be wearing for this? And then just sort of, like, putting it together. But, yeah, it's a lot of, like, looking at other performers to see, like, get ideas and inspirations and things like that as well.
[00:04:13] Speaker B: Well, what are some of your favorite items in Noelle's wardrobe?
[00:04:17] Speaker C: Oh, gosh. Okay, so the thing is, I have a lot of things in my wardrobe, and I have a lot of things that I've worn one time and never again.
I do really like the school bus just because I feel like that's just, like, very campy and fun, and I wear a lot of, like, leotards and things as well. Anything that's, like, sparkly, fringy things like that are always glitter. Always glitter. Always a good time. Yes.
[00:04:42] Speaker B: Beyond the fashion, makeup is such a big part of a drag performance. I find your before and after makeup videos on Instagram just absolutely stunning. You make it look easy, but I know a lot of time and artistry goes into these transformations. What goes into becoming Noelle as far as makeup?
[00:05:01] Speaker C: Sure. So I feel like this is, like, two parts, because.
[00:05:04] Speaker B: Oh, please.
[00:05:05] Speaker C: Yeah, no, of course. When it comes to me actually just doing a show, and I'm just doing basic Noelle makeup, that's, like a three hour process to go through. Yeah. It's such a fun time, especially, like, an early morning brunch. So great. 07:00 a.m. putting full face on, putting in the hours. Yes, yes, of course. Yeah. So that's just, I sort of have, like, a basis of, like, what I like to do with my face and go about that route. And then when it comes to Instagram, I don't know, I just started diving into doing sort of, like, different effects and things like that, and I might not wear those sort of looks to an actual show itself. Those sometimes take longer. Those can take, like, up to, like, 4 hours to do. I used to do a lot of, like, spooky Halloween makeup.
[00:05:47] Speaker B: Oh, I've seen. They're amazing.
[00:05:49] Speaker C: Yeah. So, like, I did a zombie look, I think, like, last month, and I wouldn't. I didn't wear that out anywhere. I just put that all on just to take photos and stuff, just to do it and then immediately washed it all off. But it's just, like, impermanence of art. Yes. It's fun to just sort of, like, put something together and be like, wow, that was cool to do, and then just take it all off, but have, you know, photos and videos of it.
[00:06:14] Speaker B: I imagine you take a lot of photos and video, though, as you're doing that process, just to sort of commit it to the archive.
[00:06:21] Speaker C: What's funny is that when I normally get into drag, if I'm, like, going to a show is I don't take any photos ever. I just forget because you're just, like, stressed and, like, focused on, like, having to get to the show and, like, performing and all of that stuff that by the time that you're like that, you think about it, the show's over with, and you've been wearing this makeup for a while. You're a little sweaty. It's just like, that's not the prime time to take the photos, which is part of why I started doing the Instagram makeup, because then I don't have anywhere to be. And, like, the purpose of that is just for photos, just for, like, you know, promoting things like that as well.
[00:06:55] Speaker B: And you can control the lighting. You can control so many elements around you, which, you know, aren't, I'm sure, available when you're up on a stage or. Or dancing around a room, as I've seen.
[00:07:04] Speaker C: Yes. I mean, the perfect time to take photos would be right before I'm leaving for a show, but usually I'm in a rush, so don't always have time for it.
[00:07:12] Speaker B: Well, what about some of the other amazing looks I've seen you create? You mentioned the zombie and the Halloween looks. Some of them are so detailed and intricate. What sort of time and effort goes into transforming into sort of a fire goddess or a black and white character out of a comic? That one was absolutely stunning. Where does the inspiration come from?
[00:07:32] Speaker C: Um, it can come from all sorts of different areas. I do, like, go on Pinterest a lot to sort of, like, come up with different concepts for stuff. I might see something I like and then sort of recreate it, but put my own little, like, twist on it. Yeah, it's just kind of from wherever. A few years ago, I did something called 31 days of Halloween, and that was crazy.
But essentially you would every single day in October post a different, like, costume look. And so I did it all with makeup, and it was like a six month process to get ready for. You're not doing it in actual October, and that was a lot of work to do, but I learned a lot from doing it. And so it sort of, like, brought me, I don't know, I see a lot of growth that I had within that period of time where it's just sort of condensed with so much stuff.
[00:08:20] Speaker B: But it's like boot camp. It's like hardcore training in makeup.
[00:08:24] Speaker C: Very much so. But I'm glad I did it, obviously, because now I have, you know, honed my skills a little bit more.
[00:08:30] Speaker B: Well, you've talked about your skills sort of changing and evolving over time. How has your approach to makeup sort of evolved as you become more experienced with it and more comfortable? Performing in drag would have been some of the big steps I feel like is the best word for it in your makeup performance.
[00:08:45] Speaker C: Sure. I think that. Okay, so getting into drag can be very scary because it doesn't look good until you're done. And it's definitely, you have to trust the process. Cause sometimes, you know, you're halfway through and you're like, this looks so bad, and you're committed. Cause you're already an hour and a half in at this point. You don't have time to, like, wipe it off and start over. And sometimes it just doesn't come together until the very end. But I think the biggest thing for me is when I first started out, I used to do smaller makeup. I would do, like, small eyeliner, you know, try to look more feminine, I guess, and try to look more realistic. And then I'm over that now.
[00:09:22] Speaker B: Now you're all in.
[00:09:23] Speaker C: No. So now I like bigger makeup. I heard one time someone saying that, like, they wanted their drag Persona to look like a drawing of a woman and not to look like an actual woman themselves. And I was like, that's. That's what I want to do. Yeah. I like the idea of looking like a caricature of a person rather than an actual person, so.
[00:10:03] Speaker B: Well, I confess I am a bit of a makeupphobic.
I don't even like face creams or face paint. So makeup artistry, for me, is this strange, terrifying world. Is there any general advice that you would give someone, whether it's, you know, someone who's makeup phobic, like myself, or even a younger person experimenting with makeup, or someone who's a novice, to help them sort of get comfortable with makeup and get started in that process?
[00:10:27] Speaker C: It's really just playing around with it and also just not being afraid to just be a little bit ugly because you have to get through that, especially when you're starting out. I mean, there's definitely makeup that I've done in the past that I'm like, look back on in cringe, but the fact that I can now look back at it in cringe means that I've grown. Yeah, it's definitely something you just have to kind of keep going with. And then also, if you go on YouTube, there's like, a thousand tutorials and things like that that you can follow that will help.
[00:10:55] Speaker B: You know, I learned something by watching your videos. In fact, I did not know about this. The glue sticks on your eyebrows and things like that. Like, that was. Oh, that makes total sense that that would create a flat layer for you to use. So, yeah, so I've even learned something. Yeah.
Beyond the fashion and the makeup, what else goes into becoming Noelle diamond? Because drag is more than just changing your look. It's sort of, you know, inhabiting this. This. This character, this new sort of role singing and dancing and performing. What sort of inspires you as Noelle?
[00:11:29] Speaker C: It's another thing. It really very much varies on what I'm going to be performing and what I'm going to be doing. There's definitely times where I will just do a full, I don't know, more like a dance number. Classic drag. And there's times where I'll go a campy route and I'm like, wait, I want to be really funny and do something so stupid, but stupid that it's funny. Yeah. Things like that. I have done all sorts of weird. I've got into woodworking with doing track. Yeah. Because I would make props and stuff. So I did a whole. I made a life size Barbie box that I could, like, perform in, which is.
[00:12:00] Speaker B: I saw the photos of that on your instagram. I didn't realize you made that.
[00:12:03] Speaker C: Yeah, I made that. It's now just, like, chilling in my bedroom.
Yeah. But, yeah. So it's. It's definitely forced me to learn a bunch of other different things. I think, going into drag, I thought, like, oh, I'll learn a little bit of makeup, and I'll, like, dance around. Um, and instead, it has fully enveloped my life. Um, and there's so many. I don't know, it's so intricate. Drag is so diverse and huge, and there's so many things that you can get into with it with, like, choreography, wig styling, obviously, like, the makeup, the outfits, performance. Um, there's so many things that you can be good at or that you can, you know, put your energy into. And so that's something that I also like about drag, because you can have ten performers, and they can all be so good at something so very different, which is really cool. It kind of gives everyone a space to sort of, like, shine.
[00:12:49] Speaker B: Well, last but certainly not least, I do want to ask you about drag events, because they have been such a hot button issue in so many regions lately. And let me add that the first time I met you was while you were performing at a drag queen story hour years ago. It was a wonderful, fun experience. My whole family loved it. They were so excited that I was talking with you today. We ended up attending a few others. I was really impressed with how you handled large groups of kids, because that is not an issue. Easy skill to perfect. You're singing and dancing and keeping the energy up. Why are events like this important to you, and what do you hope people in attendance get out of them?
[00:13:25] Speaker C: Yeah.
To be fully honest, the first story hour ever did, the library reached out to me and said, hey, do you want to do this? And I had heard about drag story hours. We just hadn't really had any in the area. And I was like, okay, yeah, sure. And I said yes, without really understanding, like, the weight behind it. And so starting out. Yeah, they, like, posted about it, and then obviously, it's, you know, a bit controversial for, you know, the feedback that we would get from it. Some people are not very happy about us doing these sorts of events. And I was like, oh, wow. Like, this is, this is something that people really care about in a good or a bad way.
And then going to the actual event itself, I remember being, like, stressed out because, yeah, because, of course there's, like, backlash from the community for it. Obviously, there's a louder audience of people that are in support of it. If you go through the comments, it's mostly positive, of course. But, yeah, going to the events and actually, like, getting to, like, work with the kids. And then specifically after the event is over with, people can come up and take pictures and a lot of parents will come up to you and be like, hey, like, my son wore nail polish to school the other day and was made fun of and bullied. And so we wanted to bring him here so he can kind of, like, feel more comfortable and different stories like that. And I was like, that was me when I was a kid. I was like, I wore nail polish and then I got bullied and then I never wore it again.
And so, I don't know, I just saw a lot of the things that I went through when I was a child in these kids, and I was like, this is so cool. Because if we had something like this when I was that age, maybe I wouldn't have been like, oh, I don't want to be myself. You know what I mean? I wouldn't have hidden some of the aspects of myself at that age.
[00:15:09] Speaker B: Have you felt that the response to these events, while there is sort of a negative, I feel like I agree with you that the positive is more present in a lot of the response to them. Would you agree?
[00:15:20] Speaker C: Yes, absolutely. And it's very loud online.
Everything seems to be so loud online. And so the first one I did, it's just like I was used to doing random little shows at different venues, and there wasn't like, you would post about doing the show and some people would show up, but you wouldn't get an outcrying of all these people until the story hour. And so that's what had been sort of jarring, is all of these people reacting to it. And I was like, oh, this is a bigger deal than I had realized.
[00:15:49] Speaker B: There's some weight behind this.
[00:15:51] Speaker C: Yes, for sure. And now I've gotten used to it. And so now I know what to expect. I've been doing it for quite a while now. But, yeah, it'll be loud online with people who are mad about this or that, and then those people don't show up to the event a few times I had a story hour last. Last summer that they had protesters at, but they were sort of, like, off to the side doing their own thing. It didn't really, like, I don't feel that it really disrupted the program at all, so. But, yeah, especially with the Albany public Library, they've never had any issues like that. They've always been very, like, nice and supportive. I've never felt unsafe or uncomfortable at one of these events.
[00:16:27] Speaker B: Oh, that's fantastic to hear. It must be interesting, too, to find yourself suddenly researching how to play the wheels on the bus or how to do all these children's songs as part of these. Did you ever envision yourself having to do these types of things as part of the drag performances that you're doing?
[00:16:45] Speaker C: Absolutely not. No. When I started out drag, I never thought that this would be the route that I would go with it. And when I was asked to do the first story hour, I didn't think much of it. To think that this would be added into my little repertoire of events that I would do. I'm so glad that it has.
Yeah. But, no, I don't. And I do have two nieces, but prior to, like, when I was starting this out, like, I didn't really have children in my family, so I was always sort of, like, the youngest. So I was like, I don't remember what, like, the, like, kids read or, like, the songs or any of that sort of stuff. So I had to do all this research on, like, okay, like, what's a good, like, kids song?
Um, yeah. And now, obviously, I'm more accustomed to it and have, like, ideas, and I have a whole little library in my apartment of, like, there's, like, probably, like, 15 stories in there. So I can kind of, like, switch around what I'm going to do for story hours.
[00:17:39] Speaker B: So I have to ask, is there anywhere that people can see you or Noelle, in this case, at going forward?
[00:17:44] Speaker C: Yeah, of course. I have a story hour coming up. I'm doing kinderhook pride, so that is on the 29th. And so the story hour is at the Kinder Hook Memorial library. And then immediately following that, they have, like, a little parade and celebration. And then I'll also be performing down there as well. So I get to do a story hour and perform. So that's cool.
[00:18:04] Speaker B: And, of course, your Instagram, correct?
[00:18:07] Speaker C: Yes.
[00:18:08] Speaker B: Excellent. Well, people should definitely check out your instagram, because I find it stunning. Your before and afters. Again, I'm just going to reiterate, they're that good. I'm going to reiterate, everyone should check it out.
[00:18:18] Speaker C: Well, thank you. I appreciate it.
[00:18:20] Speaker B: Well, John, thank you so much for talking with me today. This has been a really wonderful, fascinating, enlightening conversation and I'm so happy that we had it.
[00:18:29] Speaker A: Tell Noelle I said thank you, too.
[00:18:31] Speaker C: Okay, I will let her know.
[00:18:33] Speaker B: Thanks so much.
[00:18:34] Speaker C: Thank you.
[00:18:49] Speaker A: This has been the martial arts podcast with special guest drag performance artist John Macdonald, also known as Noel diamond. You can find Noelle diamond on Instagram to see some of the amazing transformations we talked about in this interview.
Thanks for listening to this episode of Martial Arts. If you like what you heard and want to hear more, make sure to subscribe to the show wherever you get your podcasts. And for more coverage of the regions, arts and entertainment scene, head to dailyGazette.com or Nippertown. This episode was produced by me, Rick Marshall for the Daily Gazette. If there's a local art story or artist you'd like to hear more about on this podcast, you can contact
[email protected] or via social media.
